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Arif
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 Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: Domains |
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What is the difference between a domain and a kingdom if you can
'swap' between them????
And is Archaea a domain or part of the bacteria kingdom?
My teacher says that it is domain but others say it isn't...
I am so confused!!!! |
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Linlin Yan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Domains |
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On Jul 1, 7:32 pm, Arif <arifer1...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
What is the difference between a domain and a kingdom if you can
'swap' between them????
And is Archaea a domain or part of the bacteria kingdom?
My teacher says that it is domain but others say it isn't...
I am so confused!!!!
|
Archaea is not bacteria.
Different taxonomy system may put it into different position. I think
archaea kingdom is more common. |
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Bob
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Domains |
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On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 04:32:21 -0700 (PDT), Arif <arifer1995@gmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
What is the difference between a domain and a kingdom if you can
'swap' between them????
|
What do you mean, swap between them?
| Quote: |
And is Archaea a domain or part of the bacteria kingdom?
|
Archaea used to be considered part of the bacteria, but are not
anymore.
Calling them a domain is common.
| Quote: |
My teacher says that it is domain but others say it isn't...
|
Not surprised. Terminology does vary. For now, use what your teacher
prefers, but be aware that others do it differently. (Your teacher is
doing the way that is now common.)
For historical perspective... It used to be that kingdom was the top
level of hierarchy. But with new discoveries, it seemed that the old
kingdom system was inadequate. There are various approaches to improve
it, and it really is true that people disagree.
I have a very fine biology textbook from 1989 that still classifies
the archaea as a phylum of the bacteria -- though it does note that
that is being challenged. Basically what happened is that the more we
learned about archaea, the less sense it made to group them with
bacteria. That is, new knowledge drove the change.
| Quote: |
I am so confused!!!!
|
Good. That means you were paying attention. :-)
bob |
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Arif
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Domains |
|
|
On Jul 1, 9:06 pm, Linlin Yan <yanlinli...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Jul 1, 7:32 pm, Arif <arifer1...@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the difference between a domain and a kingdom if you can
'swap' between them????
And is Archaea a domain or part of the bacteria kingdom?
My teacher says that it is domain but others say it isn't...
I am so confused!!!!
Archaea is not bacteria.
Different taxonomy system may put it into different position. I think
archaea kingdom is more common.
|
But i thought that Carl Woese cam eup with another way of classifying
bacteri and archaea by reading the genes? |
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Arif
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: Re: Domains |
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|
On Jul 2, 9:36 am, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 04:32:21 -0700 (PDT), Arif <arifer1...@gmail.com
wrote:
What is the difference between a domain and a kingdom if you can
'swap' between them????
What do you mean, swap between them?
And is Archaea a domain or part of the bacteria kingdom?
Archaea used to be considered part of the bacteria, but are not
anymore.
Calling them a domain is common.
My teacher says that it is domain but others say it isn't...
Not surprised. Terminology does vary. For now, use what your teacher
prefers, but be aware that others do it differently. (Your teacher is
doing the way that is now common.)
For historical perspective... It used to be that kingdom was the top
level of hierarchy. But with new discoveries, it seemed that the old
kingdom system was inadequate. There are various approaches to improve
it, and it really is true that people disagree.
I have a very fine biology textbook from 1989 that still classifies
the archaea as a phylum of the bacteria -- though it does note that
that is being challenged. Basically what happened is that the more we
learned about archaea, the less sense it made to group them with
bacteria. That is, new knowledge drove the change.
I am so confused!!!!
Good. That means you were paying attention. :-)
bob
|
If archaea is a phylum of bacteria, doesn't that mean that archaea has
the same functions as bacteria?
But scientists have proved that the rRNA sequences; RNA polymerase;
Antibiotic Sensitivity; Peptidoglycan in cell walls and membrane
liipids differ ffrom each other!
i am confused because my bio teacher talks stuffs i don't understand... |
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Linlin Yan
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Domains |
|
|
On Jul 2, 7:49 pm, Arif <arifer1...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Jul 1, 9:06 pm, Linlin Yan <yanlinli...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 1, 7:32 pm, Arif <arifer1...@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the difference between a domain and a kingdom if you can
'swap' between them????
And is Archaea a domain or part of the bacteria kingdom?
My teacher says that it is domain but others say it isn't...
I am so confused!!!!
Archaea is not bacteria.
Different taxonomy system may put it into different position. I think
archaea kingdom is more common.
But i thought that Carl Woese cam eup with another way of classifying
bacteri and archaea by reading the genes?
|
Yes, He did that by analyzing rRNA. And it is very amazing that some
single-cell organisms have differences in not only gene of rRNA, but
also several metabolic pathways. So they are classified into a new
domain or kingdom as Archaea. |
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Bob
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Domains |
|
|
On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 04:53:32 -0700 (PDT), Arif <arifer1995@gmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
I am so confused!!!!
Good. That means you were paying attention. :-)
bob
If archaea is a phylum of bacteria, doesn't that mean that archaea has
the same functions as bacteria?
|
But all organisms -- bacteria, archaea, and humans -- have more or
less the same functions.
Classifying them is an art, of interpretation.
Anyway, we no longer classify arch as a phylum of bact. That is no
longer acceptable to most people.
Remember, until "fairly recently" there was very little info about
bacteria beyond what one could see in the microscope. Very limited.
And when people first started finding arch, they seemed sort of like
bacteria -- until more info became available. In another msg, you
mentioned Woese. Indeed, it was his genetic work -- on one gene --
that provided more info than all previous work together. His work made
much clearer how distinct bact and arch are.
| Quote: |
But scientists have proved that the rRNA sequences; RNA polymerase;
Antibiotic Sensitivity; Peptidoglycan in cell walls and membrane
liipids differ ffrom each other!
i am confused because my bio teacher talks stuffs i don't understand...
|
It is confusing, esp when you hear different things. You are handling
it well by asking.
Remember, that what we teach is "our best understanding at the
moment". And that understanding changes over time. That is what
science is about -- we are always making progress, improving our
understanding. The classification is very different now than when I
first took biology (in high school, 1959) -- because so much more has
been learned.
It sounds like your teacher is giving you a good modern view. You
might ask why others are giving another view. Are they scientists
knowledgeable in the field? If so, maybe ask them why they hold their
views. Or maybe it is someone who has an older book, or is somehow
just not up to date.
Is this high school or college level?
bob |
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Arif
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Domains |
|
|
On Jul 3, 12:23 pm, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 04:53:32 -0700 (PDT), Arif <arifer1...@gmail.com
wrote:
I am so confused!!!!
Good. That means you were paying attention. :-)
bob
If archaea is a phylum of bacteria, doesn't that mean that archaea has
the same functions as bacteria?
But all organisms -- bacteria, archaea, and humans -- have more or
less the same functions.
Classifying them is an art, of interpretation.
Anyway, we no longer classify arch as a phylum of bact. That is no
longer acceptable to most people.
Remember, until "fairly recently" there was very little info about
bacteria beyond what one could see in the microscope. Very limited.
And when people first started finding arch, they seemed sort of like
bacteria -- until more info became available. In another msg, you
mentioned Woese. Indeed, it was his genetic work -- on one gene --
that provided more info than all previous work together. His work made
much clearer how distinct bact and arch are.
But scientists have proved that the rRNA sequences; RNA polymerase;
Antibiotic Sensitivity; Peptidoglycan in cell walls and membrane
liipids differ ffrom each other!
i am confused because my bio teacher talks stuffs i don't understand...
It is confusing, esp when you hear different things. You are handling
it well by asking.
Remember, that what we teach is "our best understanding at the
moment". And that understanding changes over time. That is what
science is about -- we are always making progress, improving our
understanding. The classification is very different now than when I
first took biology (in high school, 1959) -- because so much more has
been learned.
It sounds like your teacher is giving you a good modern view. You
might ask why others are giving another view. Are they scientists
knowledgeable in the field? If so, maybe ask them why they hold their
views. Or maybe it is someone who has an older book, or is somehow
just not up to date.
The scientists were international scientists that have names all over |
the world!
| Quote: |
Is this high school or college level?
Uhhh... college level but i am just 12 and studying in NUS High School |
Of Mathematics and Science
> bob |
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Larry Farrell
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Domains |
|
|
Arif wrote:
| Quote: |
On Jul 3, 12:23 pm, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 04:53:32 -0700 (PDT), Arif <arifer1...@gmail.com
wrote:
I am so confused!!!!
Good. That means you were paying attention. 
bob
If archaea is a phylum of bacteria, doesn't that mean that archaea has
the same functions as bacteria?
But all organisms -- bacteria, archaea, and humans -- have more or
less the same functions.
Classifying them is an art, of interpretation.
Anyway, we no longer classify arch as a phylum of bact. That is no
longer acceptable to most people.
Remember, until "fairly recently" there was very little info about
bacteria beyond what one could see in the microscope. Very limited.
And when people first started finding arch, they seemed sort of like
bacteria -- until more info became available. In another msg, you
mentioned Woese. Indeed, it was his genetic work -- on one gene --
that provided more info than all previous work together. His work made
much clearer how distinct bact and arch are.
But scientists have proved that the rRNA sequences; RNA polymerase;
Antibiotic Sensitivity; Peptidoglycan in cell walls and membrane
liipids differ ffrom each other!
i am confused because my bio teacher talks stuffs i don't understand...
It is confusing, esp when you hear different things. You are handling
it well by asking.
Remember, that what we teach is "our best understanding at the
moment". And that understanding changes over time. That is what
science is about -- we are always making progress, improving our
understanding. The classification is very different now than when I
first took biology (in high school, 1959) -- because so much more has
been learned.
It sounds like your teacher is giving you a good modern view. You
might ask why others are giving another view. Are they scientists
knowledgeable in the field? If so, maybe ask them why they hold their
views. Or maybe it is someone who has an older book, or is somehow
just not up to date.
The scientists were international scientists that have names all over
the world!
Is this high school or college level?
Uhhh... college level but i am just 12 and studying in NUS High School
Of Mathematics and Science
bob
|
While I agree that you are on the right track by asking questions to
clarify apparent contradictions, I don't think this is the best forum
for doing so. Oh, you can get good answers to these kinds of questions
from many of the folks who hang out here, but the time/place to ask the
questions is when/where they arise. That is, ask the people who are
making the contradictory statements when they make them! It may well be
that they are trying to make some sort of specific point by taking the
positions they state and you aren't going to identify that unless you
ask them directly for clarification. Otherwise, you have people who are
trying to determine what it is you are actually asking without any
context for the questions, making it devilishly hard for anyone to
actually deal with your concerns. Along that line, it still isn't clear
how it is that you are being exposed to college level material while
only 12 and in high school, unless you are in some sort of accelerated
honors course.
--
Larry D. Farrell, Ph.D.
Professor Emeritus of Microbiology
Idaho State University
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
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Linlin Yan
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Domains |
|
|
On Jul 3, 11:40 pm, Larry Farrell <farrl...@isu.edu> wrote:
| Quote: |
Arif wrote:
On Jul 3, 12:23 pm, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 04:53:32 -0700 (PDT), Arif <arifer1...@gmail.com
wrote:
I am so confused!!!!
Good. That means you were paying attention.
bob
If archaea is a phylum of bacteria, doesn't that mean that archaea has
the same functions as bacteria?
But all organisms -- bacteria, archaea, and humans -- have more or
less the same functions.
Classifying them is an art, of interpretation.
Anyway, we no longer classify arch as a phylum of bact. That is no
longer acceptable to most people.
Remember, until "fairly recently" there was very little info about
bacteria beyond what one could see in the microscope. Very limited.
And when people first started finding arch, they seemed sort of like
bacteria -- until more info became available. In another msg, you
mentioned Woese. Indeed, it was his genetic work -- on one gene --
that provided more info than all previous work together. His work made
much clearer how distinct bact and arch are.
But scientists have proved that the rRNA sequences; RNA polymerase;
Antibiotic Sensitivity; Peptidoglycan in cell walls and membrane
liipids differ ffrom each other!
i am confused because my bio teacher talks stuffs i don't understand....
It is confusing, esp when you hear different things. You are handling
it well by asking.
Remember, that what we teach is "our best understanding at the
moment". And that understanding changes over time. That is what
science is about -- we are always making progress, improving our
understanding. The classification is very different now than when I
first took biology (in high school, 1959) -- because so much more has
been learned.
It sounds like your teacher is giving you a good modern view. You
might ask why others are giving another view. Are they scientists
knowledgeable in the field? If so, maybe ask them why they hold their
views. Or maybe it is someone who has an older book, or is somehow
just not up to date.
The scientists were international scientists that have names all over
the world!
Is this high school or college level?
Uhhh... college level but i am just 12 and studying in NUS High School
Of Mathematics and Science
bob
While I agree that you are on the right track by asking questions to
clarify apparent contradictions, I don't think this is the best forum
for doing so. Oh, you can get good answers to these kinds of questions
from many of the folks who hang out here, but the time/place to ask the
questions is when/where they arise. That is, ask the people who are
making the contradictory statements when they make them! It may well be
that they are trying to make some sort of specific point by taking the
positions they state and you aren't going to identify that unless you
ask them directly for clarification. Otherwise, you have people who are
trying to determine what it is you are actually asking without any
context for the questions, making it devilishly hard for anyone to
actually deal with your concerns. Along that line, it still isn't clear
how it is that you are being exposed to college level material while
only 12 and in high school, unless you are in some sort of accelerated
honors course.
His statement about college level and high school confuses me as |
well.
|
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Arif
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Domains |
|
|
On Jul 3, 11:40 pm, Larry Farrell <farrl...@isu.edu> wrote:
| Quote: |
Arif wrote:
On Jul 3, 12:23 pm, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 04:53:32 -0700 (PDT), Arif <arifer1...@gmail.com
wrote:
I am so confused!!!!
Good. That means you were paying attention.
bob
If archaea is a phylum of bacteria, doesn't that mean that archaea has
the same functions as bacteria?
But all organisms -- bacteria, archaea, and humans -- have more or
less the same functions.
Classifying them is an art, of interpretation.
Anyway, we no longer classify arch as a phylum of bact. That is no
longer acceptable to most people.
Remember, until "fairly recently" there was very little info about
bacteria beyond what one could see in the microscope. Very limited.
And when people first started finding arch, they seemed sort of like
bacteria -- until more info became available. In another msg, you
mentioned Woese. Indeed, it was his genetic work -- on one gene --
that provided more info than all previous work together. His work made
much clearer how distinct bact and arch are.
But scientists have proved that the rRNA sequences; RNA polymerase;
Antibiotic Sensitivity; Peptidoglycan in cell walls and membrane
liipids differ ffrom each other!
i am confused because my bio teacher talks stuffs i don't understand....
It is confusing, esp when you hear different things. You are handling
it well by asking.
Remember, that what we teach is "our best understanding at the
moment". And that understanding changes over time. That is what
science is about -- we are always making progress, improving our
understanding. The classification is very different now than when I
first took biology (in high school, 1959) -- because so much more has
been learned.
It sounds like your teacher is giving you a good modern view. You
might ask why others are giving another view. Are they scientists
knowledgeable in the field? If so, maybe ask them why they hold their
views. Or maybe it is someone who has an older book, or is somehow
just not up to date.
The scientists were international scientists that have names all over
the world!
Is this high school or college level?
Uhhh... college level but i am just 12 and studying in NUS High School
Of Mathematics and Science
bob
While I agree that you are on the right track by asking questions to
clarify apparent contradictions, I don't think this is the best forum
for doing so.
|
Can you give me the link of the website that you think that is most
appropriate for me?
| Quote: |
Oh, you can get good answers to these kinds of questions
from many of the folks who hang out here, but the time/place to ask the
questions is when/where they arise. That is, ask the people who are
making the contradictory statements when they make them! It may well be
that they are trying to make some sort of specific point by taking the
positions they state and you aren't going to identify that unless you
ask them directly for clarification.
|
Uhhh... i don't know how to get to them... =P
| Quote: |
Otherwise, you have people who are
trying to determine what it is you are actually asking without any
context for the questions, making it devilishly hard for anyone to
actually deal with your concerns. Along that line, it still isn't clear
how it is that you are being exposed to college level material while
only 12 and in high school, unless you are in some sort of accelerated
honors course.
|
Uhhh... my school expects us to be good in maths and science... but i
am better in physics...
| Quote: |
--
Larry D. Farrell, Ph.D.
Professor Emeritus of Microbiology
Idaho State University
** Posted from:http://www.teranews.com/**
|
!!!!! I CAN;T BELIEVE MY QUESTION COULD GET A PROFFESOR LIKE YOU TO
ANSWER ME!!!!!!!!!!!
WOOTS!!!! |
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Arif
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Domains |
|
|
On Jul 4, 4:22 pm, Linlin Yan <yanlinli...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Jul 3, 11:40 pm, Larry Farrell <farrl...@isu.edu> wrote:
Arif wrote:
On Jul 3, 12:23 pm, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 04:53:32 -0700 (PDT), Arif <arifer1...@gmail.com
wrote:
I am so confused!!!!
Good. That means you were paying attention.
bob
If archaea is a phylum of bacteria, doesn't that mean that archaea has
the same functions as bacteria?
But all organisms -- bacteria, archaea, and humans -- have more or
less the same functions.
Classifying them is an art, of interpretation.
Anyway, we no longer classify arch as a phylum of bact. That is no
longer acceptable to most people.
Remember, until "fairly recently" there was very little info about
bacteria beyond what one could see in the microscope. Very limited.
And when people first started finding arch, they seemed sort of like
bacteria -- until more info became available. In another msg, you
mentioned Woese. Indeed, it was his genetic work -- on one gene --
that provided more info than all previous work together. His work made
much clearer how distinct bact and arch are.
But scientists have proved that the rRNA sequences; RNA polymerase;
Antibiotic Sensitivity; Peptidoglycan in cell walls and membrane
liipids differ ffrom each other!
i am confused because my bio teacher talks stuffs i don't understand...
It is confusing, esp when you hear different things. You are handling
it well by asking.
Remember, that what we teach is "our best understanding at the
moment". And that understanding changes over time. That is what
science is about -- we are always making progress, improving our
understanding. The classification is very different now than when I
first took biology (in high school, 1959) -- because so much more has
been learned.
It sounds like your teacher is giving you a good modern view. You
might ask why others are giving another view. Are they scientists
knowledgeable in the field? If so, maybe ask them why they hold their
views. Or maybe it is someone who has an older book, or is somehow
just not up to date.
The scientists were international scientists that have names all over
the world!
Is this high school or college level?
Uhhh... college level but i am just 12 and studying in NUS High School
Of Mathematics and Science
bob
While I agree that you are on the right track by asking questions to
clarify apparent contradictions, I don't think this is the best forum
for doing so. Oh, you can get good answers to these kinds of questions
from many of the folks who hang out here, but the time/place to ask the
questions is when/where they arise. That is, ask the people who are
making the contradictory statements when they make them! It may well be
that they are trying to make some sort of specific point by taking the
positions they state and you aren't going to identify that unless you
ask them directly for clarification. Otherwise, you have people who are
trying to determine what it is you are actually asking without any
context for the questions, making it devilishly hard for anyone to
actually deal with your concerns. Along that line, it still isn't clear
how it is that you are being exposed to college level material while
only 12 and in high school, unless you are in some sort of accelerated
honors course.
His statement about college level and high school confuses me as
well. :)
--
Larry D. Farrell, Ph.D.
Professor Emeritus of Microbiology
Idaho State University
** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**
|
haha
yep, its confusing... |
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Bob
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: Domains |
|
|
On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 04:33:55 -0700 (PDT), Arif <arifer1995@gmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
Is this high school or college level?
Uhhh... college level but i am just 12 and studying in NUS High School
Of Mathematics and Science
|
Wow! Sounds like a great opportunity.
Is this a special summer course, or part of your regular curriculum?
Are you with other students your age, or with regular college
students?
What/where is NUS?
Larry Farrell made a good point about you asking some of these
questions there, to your teacher or whomever. Asking here is good, but
some things are easier to deal with "live", where you can more easily
go back and forth -- having a conversation. From asking here I think
you at least realize that you are asking a good and complex question.
So be bold and ask there.
But, let me continue anyway... Can you be more specific about what
alternatives concern you (besides what your teacher says, which seems
good)? By whom? If it is something you read, do you know the date? (It
can really matter on something like this, where the views have changed
fairly recently.)
Have you come across other things where you find different views
presented? It may be more common in biology now. This is really an
exciting time in biology; there has been a revolution in biology in
last half century or so, and it continues.
best,
bob |
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Arif
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Domains |
|
|
On Jul 5, 12:36 am, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 04:33:55 -0700 (PDT), Arif <arifer1...@gmail.com
wrote:
Is this high school or college level?
Uhhh... college level but i am just 12 and studying in NUS High School
Of Mathematics and Science
Wow! Sounds like a great opportunity.
Is this a special summer course, or part of your regular curriculum?
Are you with other students your age, or with regular college
students?
What/where is NUS?
Larry Farrell made a good point about you asking some of these
questions there, to your teacher or whomever. Asking here is good, but
some things are easier to deal with "live", where you can more easily
go back and forth -- having a conversation. From asking here I think
you at least realize that you are asking a good and complex question.
So be bold and ask there.
But, let me continue anyway... Can you be more specific about what
alternatives concern you (besides what your teacher says, which seems
good)? By whom? If it is something you read, do you know the date? (It
can really matter on something like this, where the views have changed
fairly recently.)
Have you come across other things where you find different views
presented? It may be more common in biology now. This is really an
exciting time in biology; there has been a revolution in biology in
last half century or so, and it continues.
best,
bob
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Uhhh... NUS is the National University of Singapore but i am in The
High School of it...
Its actually an advanced school recognised by the top universities of
the world... |
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